Let's Talk About M...

Girino

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I have been following the whole Maldonado drama since its beginning. My source of information is La Nación, which is overtly anti-K but interviewed both sides of the story.

1) I do not understand why Maldonado-Mapuche and kirchnerismo fall under the same flag. The land they are claiming have been of Mr. Benetton since many years (about 15 if I am not mistaken), so I fail to see why the current government is seen as involved/responsible of 'expropriating the natives of their own lands'.

2) I remember I saw the Qom's camping under the obelisco for months, asking to be received by Cristina. She never accepted to meet them. So, I don't think she is the saint patron of natives of Argentina.

3) Cristina, his husband and the Ks folks are all of European heritage, so I can't find a reason why they should be the only ones who acted in the interest of the natives. I have read things against people of European heritage, but the Ks people are certainly not able to play that card.

4) It was under the Ks that the government was informed about the toxic products used to cultivate lands in the Chaco province and others, all for agricultural benefits of 1st world country. Instead, the government received money (as a sanction) from Monsanto. But they haven't forbidden Monsanto to keep doing what they are doing, nor they have used that money for the benefit of the affected population. So, again, I fail to see why the Ks are 'on the poor people' side'.

5) Maldonado was a guy from La Plata who moved to El Bolsón and befriended the Mapuche people. They are a native population of Chile who moved over to Argentina and conquered the Argentina-native Tehuelches a couple of centuries ago.

6) Some years ago they became violent and started attacking Argentinian people and businesses in the Chubut province, terrifying the local population (so their issue is not just with the Benetton's land. Link 1, link 2, link 3). One of their frequent target (in the middle of the night, face covered... not exactly a peaceful protest) was the guardian of the Benetton's estancia. For the sake of clarity, it is a large piece of land where the Benetton family has sheep whose fleece will be used for their clothing. There is no poisoning nor alteration of the local environment.

7) On August 1st the Mapuche blocked the famous Ruta 40. Allegedly, Santiago Maldonado was there. We won't know for sure as - as said - the Mapuche are always face covered. Plus, they also share clothes, so it is not an element we could use to clearly identify someone. The police was called in, there was a physical confrontation and then the Mapuche said that the police had taken away Maldonado.

8) The police claim they never held Maldonado. The judge asked for trained dogs to seek for traces of M's smell at the police office but none was found.

9) Somehow this is portrayed has Macri wanted to have Maldonado gone. Who the heck is Maldonado to be so important to Macri?!

10) Besides, people disappearing in Argentina is something quite frequent, so it is a surprise that a man allegedly taken by the police and allegedly taking part in a protest for a native population he is not a member of is now the focus of the news.

11) Maldonado allegedly disappeared in August 1, and on August 17th it was election day (PASO). The connection between is allegedly 'forced disappearance' and Macri was immediately done (on what basis, I still don't understand).

12 ) In the following months there were several marches (on Sept. 1st the main one, with vandalism around plaza de mayo which costed around USD300,000 in damages). Such demonstrations are not made for every disappeared people in Argentina, or not with the same amount of participant. Why so many people care for this tattoo-artist guy? Or who made them care so much?

13) Words like dictatura and Macri are often associated with (on graffitis, in the opposition candidates interviews, etc). People are scared of the past military dictatorship. I fail to see the connection between Macri and the desaparecidos. This was one guy who was nobody and who hanged out with bad company doing questionable stuff. Maybe he wasn't materially culpable of any crime, but hanging out with violent people is a recipe for troubles.

14) Two days ago a body was found 300 meters from the Mapuche village and the Ruta 40 spot where it all happened. It has the DNI of Maldonado on. The DNI....

15) The Ks insist Macri is behind this. Help me see the connection, 'cause I see none.
The president wanted a guy dead? Why?
I can take that the guy was killed by an over-zealous policeman. Then pin the policeman, not the government.
Let's say an accidental death happened and the police/the government was involved. Should I really believe there is no way to make a body disappear in Argentina? Or that they are so smart that they had no better place where to place the body? Or that they were so dumb to even leave the guy's DNI on him? I agree the body was placed there, but I really don't see why the government would have done so had they been behind this all the time. Sounds staged... but not by the police.

16) On October 22nd there will be the general elections.

If I had to take a guess, I'd say the only ones who mounted up this case and would benefit from it are the Ks.

Cui prodest scelus, ist fecit.
 
I have been following the whole Maldonado drama since its beginning. My source of information is La Nación, which is overtly anti-K but interviewed both sides of the story.

1) I do not understand why Maldonado-Mapuche and kirchnerismo fall under the same flag. The land they are claiming have been of Mr. Benetton since many years (about 15 if I am not mistaken), so I fail to see why the current government is seen as involved/responsible of 'expropriating the natives of their own lands'.

2) I remember I saw the Qom's camping under the obelisco for months, asking to be received by Cristina. She never accepted to meet them. So, I don't think she is the saint patron of natives of Argentina.

3) Cristina, his husband and the Ks folks are all of European heritage, so I can't find a reason why they should be the only ones who acted in the interest of the natives. I have read things against people of European heritage, but the Ks people are certainly not able to play that card.

4) It was under the Ks that the government was informed about the toxic products used to cultivate lands in the Chaco province and others, all for agricultural benefits of 1st world country. Instead, the government received money (as a sanction) from Monsanto. But they haven't forbidden Monsanto to keep doing what they are doing, nor they have used that money for the benefit of the affected population. So, again, I fail to see why the Ks are 'on the poor people' side'.

5) Maldonado was a guy from La Plata who moved to El Bolsón and befriended the Mapuche people. They are a native population of Chile who moved over to Argentina and conquered the Argentina-native Tehuelches a couple of centuries ago.

6) Some years ago they became violent and started attacking Argentinian people and businesses in the Chubut province, terrifying the local population (so their issue is not just with the Benetton's land. Link 1, link 2, link 3). One of their frequent target (in the middle of the night, face covered... not exactly a peaceful protest) was the guardian of the Benetton's estancia. For the sake of clarity, it is a large piece of land where the Benetton family has sheep whose fleece will be used for their clothing. There is no poisoning nor alteration of the local environment.

7) On August 1st the Mapuche blocked the famous Ruta 40. Allegedly, Santiago Maldonado was there. We won't know for sure as - as said - the Mapuche are always face covered. Plus, they also share clothes, so it is not an element we could use to clearly identify someone. The police was called in, there was a physical confrontation and then the Mapuche said that the police had taken away Maldonado.

8) The police claim they never held Maldonado. The judge asked for trained dogs to seek for traces of M's smell at the police office but none was found.

9) Somehow this is portrayed has Macri wanted to have Maldonado gone. Who the heck is Maldonado to be so important to Macri?!

10) Besides, people disappearing in Argentina is something quite frequent, so it is a surprise that a man allegedly taken by the police and allegedly taking part in a protest for a native population he is not a member of is now the focus of the news.

11) Maldonado allegedly disappeared in August 1, and on August 17th it was election day (PASO). The connection between is allegedly 'forced disappearance' and Macri was immediately done (on what basis, I still don't understand).

12 ) In the following months there were several marches (on Sept. 1st the main one, with vandalism around plaza de mayo which costed around USD300,000 in damages). Such demonstrations are not made for every disappeared people in Argentina, or not with the same amount of participant. Why so many people care for this tattoo-artist guy? Or who made them care so much?

13) Words like dictatura and Macri are often associated with (on graffitis, in the opposition candidates interviews, etc). People are scared of the past military dictatorship. I fail to see the connection between Macri and the desaparecidos. This was one guy who was nobody and who hanged out with bad company doing questionable stuff. Maybe he wasn't materially culpable of any crime, but hanging out with violent people is a recipe for troubles.

14) Two days ago a body was found 300 meters from the Mapuche village and the Ruta 40 spot where it all happened. It has the DNI of Maldonado on. The DNI....

15) The Ks insist Macri is behind this. Help me see the connection, 'cause I see none.
The president wanted a guy dead? Why?
I can take that the guy was killed by an over-zealous policeman. Then pin the policeman, not the government.
Let's say an accidental death happened and the police/the government was involved. Should I really believe there is no way to make a body disappear in Argentina? Or that they are so smart that they had no better place where to place the body? Or that they were so dumb to even leave the guy's DNI on him? I agree the body was placed there, but I really don't see why the government would have done so had they been behind this all the time. Sounds staged... but not by the police.

16) On October 22nd there will be the general elections.

If I had to take a guess, I'd say the only ones who mounted up this case and would benefit from it are the Ks.

Cui prodest scelus, ist fecit. Translation

'The one who benefits from the crime is the one who committed it.' ??
 
You might be 20% right.

1) Gendarmeria killed Santiago Maldonado and hide the body; this happened during an ILLEGAL operation as they only had a federal judge's order to clear up the highway.

2) Macri's government, yes, the government, covered it up. They knew from the very beginning that Santiago Maldonado was there that day and still they created 1000 red herrings (he's in Chile, he's in Entre Rios, he's in a barber shop in San Luis, etc.). Despite knowing he was there that day Patricia Bullrich LIED in congress. Why? Her chief of staff Pablo Noceti gave the orders to carry on the operation which lead to Santiago's murder (BTW nobody in his right mind says the Government order the murder per se, they just wanted to teach a lesson to the mapuches but once you unleash these beasts you can't control them) and she tried to cover it up as much as she could.

https://youtu.be/x2ERqkPNlKw
https://revolucionpopular.com/noticia/750/video-documento-revelador-en-m1-noceti-le-aviso-7-dias-antes-a-gendarmeria-que-i

3) The Government didn't place the corpse, Gendarmeria did, they have had him all this time. We could only speculate on why they did it but the most obvious reason is that they found out they weren't going to be spared from justice and decided to retaliate as hard as they could against their political bosses. Trying to implicate the K's is pretty ridiculous when everything is this government's doing, you could also ask yourself why the hell they didn't just side with the family from the very first day and blamed the Gendarmeria but I guess you bought the mass media coverage that disregarded the witnesses.

Turns out anyone following C5N's coverage has known the whole deal since two months ago when the mapuches told what they witnessed but hey, they were just working for the K's for sure. Pretty soon gendarmes will start talking and you will be able to blame la Campora for that too, no worries.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/20/body-found-in-icy-river-could-sway-argentinas-midterm-elections
 
But it looks like the guy had joined the Mapuche cause 3 months ago. It looks too a short time to be a person of interest whose disappearance would have mattered politically. (he was definitely not a leader).
Also, had them made him disappear for real, why would them have the body found 4 days before the election? Why would they made it possible to identify him two days before elections?

It's too badly staged to be the result of this supposed government's scheme. It's been bad timing all over for Macri. So I am calling Macri's opposition as the benefiter from all of this.
 
I think we are seeing just how twisted politics can be, and I don't mean just here. The goal is who can benefit most from a dead body.
 
Serafina, than you for an informative post. As a frequent visitor to BA (quasi expat) now married to a Portena, I have been hearing about the Maldonado affair quite a bit these past few weeks, but was uncertain what the heck it was all about other than to perceive that the K Klan was using his disappearance as a calling cry for the election. The K Klan was accusing the Macri admin of engaging in the same tyrannical conduct - causing disappearances of adversaries- as the last military regime notoriously committed. Demagoguery, pure and simple. Coincidentally, I lived in BA from 5/75 to 1/76 leaving just before Videla rose to power via the coup against Isabelita.
I now believe not that the K Klan murdered Maldonado, but that they have accused Macri with no factual basis for doing so. Nor does it make any sense that the Macri administration would kill off Maldonado- a person of little or no consequence on the political landscape while alive. A rogue cop, maybe. Macri? Nah, but it sure is being shoved down the throat of the public as his fault. Hillary's use of an unsecured email account deja vu.
 
Also note the La Nacion (I think that's where it was) article a few weeks ago documenting how the web site to find him was launched before he disappeared.....
 
Also note the La Nacion (I think that's where it was) article a few weeks ago documenting how the web site to find him was launched before he disappeared.....

Couldn't find it on La Nacion, did find it on Taringa.

The 2 main things they point to was that Google seems to have indexed the page on 1 August (day of SM disappearance) and that a file from the site (formatting.php) was last modified 1 August 2017.

The site was registered with Namecheap.com. WHOIS information was made private using the service of a registration service called Whoisguard. The creation date is 9 August 2017.

Several people refute this allegation, pointing out that the Google indexing date has some margin of error (anybody know whether this is true?), and that the file in question is part of the WordPress package (indeed, quite a few files date from 2016) making its dating irrelevant. Is there anything about formatting.php which made its dating particularly relevant?

Both Namecheap and Whoisguard are based in the US. How hard would it be for a foreign government/law enforcement agency to subpoena the relevant information?

If it can be established that the site was indeed registered prior to SM disappearance, then the identity of the registrant would be particularly pertinent to any murder investigation.
 
https://www.prensadigital.com.ar/2017/09/15/la-teoria-informatica-el-sitio-santiagomaldonado-com-fue-creado-antes-que-el-desaparezca/

Ah it wasn't La nacion but La Prensa!

Btw: google isn't wrong about these things....and the examples in which people claim google is wrong are equally as sketchy

In short: I suspect the original points (see Prensa link) are stronger than the rebuttals. Too many details to type on my phone now!
 
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