Multiple Re-Entries During Months-Long Stay

[Stantucker]

The latter.

PS: What would be useful to know is if you no longer have the prorroga associated with the Radex application.

I doubt it.

Artisans posted one must be in Argentina to initiate the Radex process.

Now we know one must be in Argentina throughout it.

You get the 90 day prórroga only after you have had your appt and turned in and had approved all the documentation you had previously uploaded to Radex.

 

[Stantucker]

The latter.

PS: What would be useful to know is if you no longer have the prorroga associated with the Radex application.

I doubt it.

Artisans posted one must be in Argentina to initiate the Radex process.

Now we know one must be in Argentina throughout it.

Sorry, I had not seen your post in another thread about what Artisans had said: once you finish your application in Radex, you automatically have a 90 day extension. I stand corrected. You get the official 90 day precaria after your appt.

 

[ben]

I must say that I have not seen any benefit to people whatsoever from the whole Radex scheme.
Before, it was exceedingly simple. You had your documents, you made an appointment online, you presented your papers, you exited the building with a 90-day precaria in hand.
I had to travel while my application was pending, when I got to passport control the migraciones agent told me I’d already been approved and already had a DNI number.
The DNI gets sent to your address with courier, if they miss you (as in my case) then you have to go down to Jujuy and waste a morning picking it up. Hardly ideal but not the end of the world.
This is not only my story, it was largely the experience of everyone I spoke to.
Since Radex was introduced, I have not heard of one solitary person who had smooth sailing.

 

[steveinbsas]

The Radex system was not introduced to make it easier for the foreigner to apply for temporary or permanent residency.

It was (and is) designed as a trap for "irregulars" to self identify and provide their location in Argentina, making it easier for migraciones to "find" them.

PS: Perhaps as well as a means of eliminating multiple visits by applicants who don't yet have all of their papers in order.

 

[Stantucker]

I must say that I have not seen any benefit to people whatsoever from the whole Radex scheme.
Before, it was exceedingly simple. You had your documents, you made an appointment online, you presented your papers, you exited the building with a 90-day precaria in hand.
I had to travel while my application was pending, when I got to passport control the migraciones agent told me I’d already been approved and already had a DNI number.
The DNI gets sent to your address with courier, if they miss you (as in my case) then you have to go down to Jujuy and waste a morning picking it up. Hardly ideal but not the end of the world.
This is not only my story, it was largely the experience of everyone I spoke to.
Since Radex was introduced, I have not heard of one solitary person who had smooth sailing.

Ben, I couldn't agree with you more. It's been nothing but a headache for us. Let me go through all the steps we took:
1) I went to Bldg 6, section C to ask about the fact that Radex asks for antecedentes penales from the country you most recently lived in before Argentina in all of the following cases: a brand new application, a prorroga, and a change from temporary to permanent residency. Because we were applying for a change from temporary to permanent residency and had lived only in Argentina during our temporary residencies, they told me just to upload a blank sheet of paper for those antecedentes penales, not the Argentine ones (that's something different).
2) We applied through Radex June 20. We were not asked (as it seems Artisans was) to upload proof of retirement benefits, neither in my file nor my wife's. I thought that was strange since that is the basis of our residency.
3) We decided that we would travel to the US Oct. 1 for a wedding. Because I was afraid that we might not have time to have our appt at Migraciones and get our 90 day precaria before our departure (if they took full 90 days for them to give us a date for the appt, as they state they can), I went back to bldg 6. I was sent to section M this time and was told that if we left the country without a precaria, we would have to pay the fine for overstaying our visa (expired temporary residency), but that it would not affect our application for permanent residency.
4) Approx. five weeks after the submission of our Radex application, we were contacted via email and given an appt for a couple of days later, but were not asked to provide via email (as was Artisans' case) any additional or missing documentation, and we were not given a temporary precaria.
5) At the appt we were asked for proof of retirement benefits and our marriage license, the marriage license because I do not get Social Security benefits yet, so I am piggybacking on my wife's benefits. The young employee we worked with acknowledged that Radex does not allow you to upload those (at least not in our case), one of its' shortcomings. He said that it's easier to call people in for an appt and get the required documents than ask for them by email. He then gave us a three day temporary precaria valid until Monday, the day of our second appt. We also told us to bring a certificado de domicilio, something we had never been asked for before (or not since our initial application).
6) On Monday we went back and had to show all the same documents (SS benefits letter, marriage license, etc.) and had our prints and photos taken. Because the last time my wife had entered the country they had given her a tourist visa in the system, we were sent to section M. It took them an hour and forty five minutes to decide that they could not restamp her passport, but that they could change her visa type in the system, which they did. That satisfied the folks in section C. Because our agent was now with another person, she told us through the plexiglass something about a precaria. We found the precaria about a week later on the Migraciones website.
7) We are still waiting for our DNI, but unlike other years, we were not given a piece of paper to turn in to the courier. We hope the boleta they sent us saying we needed to pay 300 for our DNI and the small receipt Provincia Net gave us when we actually paid will be enough.
The saga continues.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

The Radex system was not introduced to make it easier for the foreigner to apply for temporary or permanent residency.

It was (and is) designed as a trap for "irregulars" to self identify and provide their location in Argentina, making it easier for migraciones to "find" them.

PS: Perhaps as well as a means of eliminating multiple visits by applicants who don't yet have all of their papers in order.

Best reply ever Steive!!!!

 

[ben]

PS: Perhaps as well as a means of eliminating multiple visits by applicants who don't yet have all of their papers in order.

I would regard your postscript as far more likely than the trap theory.
Aside from Hanlan’s razor (“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity”) - as traps go, it’s a pretty stupid trap.
Generally speaking, illegals with no grounds for legal residency know better than to appear on anyone’s radar.
Replacing the old system with an online platform is exceedingly unlikely to change that in any way.

I regard your postscript as far more plausible. The other reasons I’d think of is:

• to need less people for the job (though that is an implausible motivation when we’re talking about Arg govt employment);
• because someone decided that moving it online (or as they say here, “por pagina”) is more modern or somehow cooler, actual results be damned.

At any rate, for the customer, this change has been bad all around.

 

[semigoodlookin]

The Radex system was not introduced to make it easier for the foreigner to apply for temporary or permanent residency.

It was (and is) designed as a trap for "irregulars" to self identify and provide their location in Argentina, making it easier for migraciones to "find" them.

Unlikely. Irregulars are typically people from Europe/North America/Asia. Has a case ever existed where migraciones has found someone and actively sought them out? I mean even since Radex there are no reports of migraciones kicking down doors to cart "irregulars" off. If it's just to find them and do nothing, what's the point. It would be a pretty pointless trap either way.

If you are irregular or illegal and know you cannot get residency here, why would you even touch the Radex tool? Migraciones can catch the people abusing the system more easily by flipping open their passport at the airport rather than setting up a whole online system just on the off chance.

 

[steveinbsas]

Unlikely. Irregulars are typically people from Europe/North America/Asia.

Irregulars are all foreigners who do not have a tourist permit or temporary or permanent residency in Argentina, including (I believe) citizens of other Mercosur countries.

I mean even since Radex there are no reports of migraciones kicking down doors to cart "irregulars" off. If it's just to find them and do nothing, what's the point. It would be a pretty pointless trap either way.

Perhaps they're still building the data base.

PS: I remember when there were no reports of foreigners who were typically people from Europe and North America who were denied reentry because of too many visa runs and/or overstays.

Those days are obviously over.

More about the new system (from August 19, 2018):

From LaNacion: Macri lanza un plan para reforzar el control de los inmigrantes

Title in English: Macri launches a plan to reinforce control of immigrants

Here's the original article: https://www.lanacion.com.ar/2163790-macri-lanza-plan-reforzar-control-inmigrantes

The first step of the plan for illegal immigrants will be to launch in September an application for cell phones of agents of health, security, police, gendarmes and provincial police, among others. The device will allow agents to see migratory situation of any foreigner: if the foreigner has temporary or permanent residence, a tourist visa or is not regular. It will also detect if the foreigner does not have a record of entry at any border crossing.

According to immigration officials, if a foreigner with illegal entry is identified as traveling near a border crossing point, en flagrancia, he could be expelled from the country until he makes his legal entry. In case of illegal residents, they will be given a period of 30 days to regularize. Cases are often found in hospitals, where they are attended: doctors could detect them with the application of their cell phone.

The application will take the name, nationality and date of birth of the foreigner, and will provide their immigration status, the last three entries and exits from the country, and the criminal history (antecedentes). "If they use a public hospital or services, they must pay taxes to the State," García said.

To regularize, Migraciones will launch in September another system of remote regularization, by Internet, that will replace the process of long lines and state bureaucracy. In the Migraciones website, the interested party will initiate the procedure using the "Radex" link (Radicación a Distancia de Extranjeros). One must enter biographical information, photos of their residence certificates and criminal records of the country of origin and pay the fee: $3000 pesos for citizens of Mercosur countries and $6000 pesos for extra-Mercosur.

The process will end up at the Migraciones headquarters corresponding to your address for fingerprints and a photo, after which the DNI will be sent to your home. The complete procedure should take, if it is normal, a week. "In the last 15 years many foreigners have entered who received assistance from the State, in health or education, without paying taxes. All must be regular, with rights and obligations," said an official source.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Unlikely. Irregulars are typically people from Europe/North America/Asia. Has a case ever existed where migraciones has found someone and actively sought them out? I mean even since Radex there are no reports of migraciones kicking down doors to cart "irregulars" off. If it's just to find them and do nothing, what's the point. It would be a pretty pointless trap either way.

If you are irregular or illegal and know you cannot get residency here, why would you even touch the Radex tool? Migraciones can catch the people abusing the system more easily by flipping open their passport at the airport rather than setting up a whole online system just on the off chance.

Immigration agents always tell my clients to go to the DNM to get a DNI and it is obviously a lie because they can be arrested, only, if they go there.